Intro

Alvarez: 00:00 – 00:16

Hi, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Gator Talk. This is Autumn Alvarez, the politics editor for the Golden Gate Express. Today I’m joined with our SFSU Disabilities Program and Resource Center Associate Director Roberto Santiago. Thank you so much for being here and joining us.

Alvarez: 00:17 – 00:23

He’s going to talk a little bit about his experience as an ASL interpreter and his work within the DPRC.

Interview

Alvarez: 00:23 – 00:26

And Mr. Santiago, can you introduce yourself just a little bit?

Santiago: 00:27 – 00:45

Sure, yeah. It’s actually Dr. Santiago. If we’re being formal. That’s okay. I know that that becomes an important thing in academia. I’m always telling my staff, hey, make sure you look up who you’re responding to in an email and see what their title is. I learned that lesson the hard way.

Santiago: 00:45 – 00:51

As a student. I had a professor get really mad at me because I called her professor instead of doctor.

Alvarez: 00:51 – 00:52

She was offended?

Santiago: 00:52 – 01:11

Roberto Santiago

She was offended. And that was funny, because then I looked it up and according to the Department of Labor professors, a higher title, because every professor pretty much has a Ph.D., but not every Ph.D. is a professor. So I was very happy to mention that to her later. But yeah. So I am Dr. Roberto Santiago.

Santiago: 01:11 – 01:31

I’m the associate director for the Disability Programs and Resource Center. I’ve been in this role for almost three years. Prior to that, I was the deaf and hard of hearing services coordinator here for DPRC. And prior to that, I was a sign language interpreter, which I’ve done for a long time. And I was also a professor. 

01:32 – 01:54

I’ve done a lot of things. I like to say that I have seen accommodations from every perspective. Right. So I’ve been the accommodation as a sign language interpreter in the classroom. I’ve had to implement accommodations as an instructor, right when I get that accommodation letter from the school. And then I have to figure out, okay, how do I work this into my classroom?

01:54 – 02:02

And, and now working for DPRC, I help to sort of determine  and send out those accommodations. 

Alvarez: 02:02 – 02:10

That’s awesome.

So could you tell us a little bit about your experience as an interpreter? Where did you start?

Santiago: 02:10 – 02:35

Yeah. So, I’m from the Bay area. I grew up in Berkeley, and when I was a junior in high school, I joined a group called – it was called Inner City Outings at the time. They’ve changed that to Inspiring Connections Outdoors. And they wanted to sort of drop the inner city connotation because, I mean, really what we did is we took underprivileged teenagers out on wilderness trips.

002:35 – 02:55

So, half of our group did backpacking and the other half did whitewater rafting, and I was part of the whitewater rafting side. What I didn’t know when I joined is that about a third of the adults involved in the group were deaf. And, so that was my first time meeting deaf people. My first time really interacting with sign language interpreters.

02:56 – 03:16

And I just thought that was the coolest thing. And, I had been involved in theater my whole life. I was going to try to go to school for theater and go be an actor and be a movie star. And, you know, theater is like sports or anything else where, you know, it’s a pyramid, right?

03:16 – 03:42

And the higher you go, the harder it is, and the more talented everyone is and the competition gets tougher. And as I was getting towards my senior year and applying to schools, I kind of had to do that tough self-analysis of “where do I really stand in this field?” Okay. And I was worried because I was a good actor.

03:42 – 03:58

But I was a good actor. And as I was moving up in the world of theater, I noticed, like, well, I’m gonna have this guy who is a good actor and he can dance, and he plays three instruments and he can sing. And I’m like, I’m like, if that’s the way it’s gonna go. Like, I’m funny.

03:58 – 04:04

That’s like all I got, you know? And that could be enough. But it’s a really tough gig, right? 

Alvarez: 04:04 – 04:06

Sounds like there’s a lot of competition.

Santiago: 04:06 – 04:27

It’s a lot of competition. It’s a lot of waiting tables. It’s a lot like, you know, and so I thought about what do I really like about acting, what is really my goal? And what I came to is I really like pretending to be other people. You know, I knew I didn’t really want to have this one job where I went to one office and did one thing, which is what I do now.

04:27 – 04:45

But, you know, and so I was drawn to theater because I didn’t have to choose a profession. Right? I could pretend to be a doctor. I could pretend to be a lawyer. I could pretend to be a firefighter. And that’s great. That’s all I want to do. And I thought about “oh, what is it about that that’s so appealing?”

04:45 – 05:06

And what it was is that glimpse into other people’s lives, I’m really interested in the world and people. Yeah. And so I really like that aspect of it, of sort of trying different things on, and I found out that interpreting is really just improv theater. 

Alvarez: 05:06 – 05:08

Oh, wow. How so?  Because I’m not me when I’m interpreting.

Santiago: 05:09 – 05:29

Because I’m not me when I’m interpreting. Right? I’m one of the people I’m interpreting for. It’s their message. It’s their world. It’s their words. And to really do it well, you have to try to become them. Right? You have to think about the same things you think about when you’re acting, right. So when you’re in a play and you get a script and you’re thinking of the character, what’s their motivation?

05:29 – 05:45

Why are they here? What do they want out of this scene? What’s the emotion behind it? What are they saying that they’re not saying, you know, like good acting. You really you’re not just saying the words, right? You’re trying to carry all of that meta message through, and you got six to eight weeks to rehearse. Think about it, and everything.

05:45 – 06:07

Interpreting is the same thing. Right? The person, whether they’re at their doctor’s office or at a parent teacher conference or at a work meeting, they’re there for a reason. There’s something they want out of that interaction, and you have to get that across with more than just the words. Right? So you’re doing that same character analysis, except you only have six to eight seconds.

06:07 – 06:14

Okay. You don’t have to be searching to figure it out. So it’s essentially a theater game, right?

Alvarez: 0614 – 06:15

Just to be able to look at it.

Santiago: 06:15 – 06:36

So by becoming an interpreter, I got what I was seeking, right. Because in the morning, I’m a doctor and in the afternoon I’m a lawyer. And in the evening I’m a teacher. Oh, right. Because I’m sort of pretending to be all these things. And that was – that really satisfied that need for me.

06:36 – 07:03

And I’ve learned so many cool things and got to do so many cool things just by going out and doing my job, which is, it’s been an absolutely phenomenal career. It’s also very tiring, and it’s something that usually you do freelance. So there’s not a lot of staff work, especially in the West Coast, in the Bay area.

07:03 – 07:23

So you’re, it’s a constant hustle, you know, and I’ll tell you the other thing. So I also liked it, I liked the freelance aspect. My mom was a freelance journalist, so I grew up watching her hustle and pitch stories and do things on spec because she thought it was interesting and then try to sell it or get a site, and she was just constantly going.

07:23 – 07:32

And that’s what interpreting was like for me constantly, constantly, you know, you don’t know when you’re going to have the dry spell, when there’s not going to be work. So you’re just taking everything right.

Alvarez: 07:32 – 07:38

And so, how long were you an interpreter for again?

Santiago: 07:38 – 08:01

There’s a lot of ways of counting here. I took my first interpreting job in 1998, when I probably shouldn’t have. I probably didn’t do a very good job. I was still in school. But the world is so desperate for interpreters, and I did not do a good self-analysis on that one. So I started working in 1998 and off and on until I finished school.

08:01 – 08:17

And I really launched into it, and I took an unusual path through school and through the field where, you know, I didn’t know sign language. And when I, when I first decided to do this. So I actually went to Berkeley City College for four years.

08:18 – 08:30

So then I did two years at Gallaudet University in D.C. and did a master’s in interpreting. I finished that in 2004. So probably 2003 is when I really started to do it almost full time. 

Alvarez: 08:32 – 08:36

Were there any memorable experiences from just being an interpreter?

Santiago: 08:36 – 08:54

Oh my goodness. So many. Yeah, it’s hard to pick. I think some of my favorites, you know, working in DC was really interesting because a lot of the work is for deaf people who work in the federal government, and they do all kinds of any job you can think of anyone doing in the federal government.

08:55 – 09:59

There’s a deaf person who does that thing. But a lot of them are on the tech side. 

Alvarez: 09:00 – 09:03

There’s a lot of different… tech is like a whole different language.

Santiago: 09:03 – 09:26

Yeah. Think about all the tech jargon that’s just in the world now. And now you have, I don’t, but the deaf community, the people who are in those fields have to then invent signs for these new words. Right. Or concepts. And then me, you know, coming in, I have to learn all of that. But it was really interesting working for the federal government, working for the military.

09:26 – 09:36

Because what you really learn there is how many people devote their entire life to making your life easier. Right.

09:36 – 09:57

So that was really eye opening for me. And then I’ve done some, you know, just some weird, fun stuff I interpreted for Hillary Clinton when she was secretary of state. You know one of my favorites is I interpreted for a deaf man who went to the Boston Red Sox fantasy camp.

09:57 – 10:19

And so for those who don’t know what fantasy camp is, it’s, you pay an ungodly amount of money to pretend you’re a baseball player for a week and a half. So it’s all these older guys who are out there at the Boston Red Sox spring training site pretending to be professional baseball players. And the fun part is, like, all these retired pros are the coaches, and you split into teams and you play a bunch of baseball.

10:19 – 10:37

Well, this guy is 62, 63, something like that. And so he didn’t just use me as an interpreter, but he also used me as his pinch runner. Oh my gosh guys. So I got to participate in play a little bit. And then on the very last day you play a game against all the coaches, all the retired pros. You play a three-inning game against them.

Alvarez: 10:37 – 10:38

That’s kind of cool. 

Santiago: 10:38 – 10:58

And they actually put me in the lineup. Oh man, I hit, I’ve  never really played baseball, I played softball, I played pickup sandlot baseball. But I never played real baseball. I was the very last batter. There were two outs, and I actually got a base hit and an RBI off a retired pitcher.

0:59 – 11:07

It’s my greatest athletic achievement, and it happened because I was interpreting. Right?  

Alvarez: 11:07 – 11:16

It’s opened different avenues for you. That’s so cool. And so coming from those experiences and to San Francisco State, how did that transition?

Santiago: 11;17 – 00:11:37

Pretty well. How’d that happened? Wow. So I was, I was teaching, and then I was doing, I was in a similar role that I am now at a community college. And then I was working as an interpreter when Covid happened. 

11:37 – 11:45

So we pretty quickly pivoted there. And then I ended up working as remotely as a staff interpreter for San Jose State.

11:45 – 12:12

So that was sort of how I got back into academia. Okay. And then one of my colleagues at San Jose State left to become the interim deaf and hard of hearing services coordinator here. And then when they were sort of getting, you know, they didn’t want the full time job. So then when it was posted, I learned that it was open and that’s when I was really starting to think, health insurance would be great.

12:12 – 12:41

Retirement would be great. Yeah. You know, and I was looking to get back into academia because, you know, I had been a professor, I had been in an administrative, you know, role, managerial role. And I really, really enjoy and appreciate the world of education, of students. I really enjoyed working at a community college because, like I said, I graduated from community college.

12:42 – 12:57

And I really like being here at SF State because of our student population. Again, I’m also a CSU grad. But being from the Bay Area and knowing that our population is so heavily…

Alvarez: 13:00-13:01

Diverse?

Santiago: 13:02 – 13:28

You know, I mean, yeah, I want to. Yeah, I was trying to avoid using the word diversity because I feel like it’s, it doesn’t really even – it doesn’t say enough. Right. But like, we have so many first generation students, right? We have so many Hispanic Latino students. Chicano students. We have so many. You know, our the black and brown population that we have here is a lot bigger than you see at other universities, even other CSUs.

13:29 – 13:34

And those are my people, right. Like those are the students like that I identify with.

13:34 – 13:52

It’s just really this is a place that really, like, fills my heart. Yeah. Coming here and knowing that I get to be of service to all of these students every day. It was, it was so it was attractive for like the benefits and stuff and all that. But it was really attractive as for the place, you know.

Alvarez: 13:52 – 14:05

That’s an interesting outlook because not everybody can say that about the place that they work at that they, you know, identify with the people that they work with or the students that are here. So, you know, it’s just heartfelt. 

Santiago: 14:05 – 14:29

We help them focus on their education which should be their focus. Right. And so what I really see is the role of our office being you know. Yeah. There’s the nuts and bolts of providing accommodation, but at the end of the day the reason we’re here is so a student doesn’t have to fight for what they need, and they don’t have to fight for what they deserve and they don’t have to bug their professor to remind them that they need the accommodation.

14:29 – 14:47

You know, they can just come to us and we’ll take on that fight for them. You know, definitely. And so we’re trying to take the weight off of them. We’re trying to take something off their plate. Yes. Give them the accommodation, but also try to make getting that accommodation as easy as possible. 

Alvarez: 14:48 – 15:04

Just creating that way of access is so important for students. I know that the DPRC works with a range of students, but directly with the deaf and hard of hearing students. What kind of accommodations does the DPRC offer?

Santiago: 15:04 – 15:24

Yeah, we have the full suite of deaf and hard of hearing accommodations available. So it includes several things. I’ll tell you one thing that’s really hard to do is, look at an interpreter and take notes, okay? Right. So we have note taking services. We have two kinds of note taking services.

15:24 – 15:46

And these are available to any student who needs note taking for whatever reason. Our default is, you record the lecture and then you upload it to, service that we have, called messenger pigeon and then a real person, not AI, an actual human being listens to the lecture and takes notes and sends them back to you.

Alvarez: 15:46 – 15:07 

Oh. That’s awesome. 

Santiago: 15:07 – 16:09

And it’s about a 48 hour turnaround on those, [for] some people that really doesn’t work. So we do also offer in class note takers. Typically they are students who are taking the class who just share their notes. Okay. And if you ever get out in the world, if you ever get that email from us that says, ‘hey, we’re looking for in class, note taker,’ it’s really easy.

16:10 – 16:27

You really don’t have to do anything extra. You just have to share your notes. So whatever notes you might normally take, you just send those to the other student. And as a nice thank you, we will offer you priority registration. 

16:28 – 16:34

Oh yes. So if you volunteer as a note taker, we will get you priority registration. Especially when you’re heading into that like junior year. Yeah. Yeah. You might want to make sure you get your classes.

16:34 – 16:52

So that’s one, that’s kind of an easy one. And then the one that’s probably the ones that are most visible are, probably our sign language interpreters and our real time captioners. Okay. It’s called CART. I think it’s computer aided, real time, something. I said there’s a couple different ways of putting that acronym together, but we call it CART.

16:52 – 17:12

And you’ll see them in your classes. Right. So the sign language interpreters are usually sitting at the front of the room, you know, doing sign language, and then our CART people, what that the way that works is they sit and listen to the lecture and it’s kind of like the court reportings. Oh, they’re not actually typing on a keyboard, like everything.

17:12 – 17:30

They’re typing it so by syllable, by syllable. And then it comes up, the student can just open their laptop and the captions come up o on their screen. Oh, of course we do media captioning. So when your teacher shows a video, usually they’ve sent that to us. First we have it captioned and then we send it back to them.

Alvarez: 17:30 – 17:37

And I forgot to ask, but how big is the deaf and hard of hearing community here on San Francisco State’s campus?

Santiago: 17:37 – 17:55;

I probably should have looked that up before I came. But I’ll sort of go off the top of my head from what I remember, since I’m not involved so heavily in that side of things anymore. I can tell you, when I saw it used to be really big before Covid, I think they’re probably like, you know, over 20 maybe, deaf and hard of hearing students.

17:55 – 18:18

And then, of course, it shrunk down. And when I got here, it was a nice way to ease into the job because I think we had six. For whatever reason, I like to think it’s because I did a good job and we got a good reputation, that’s grown. So I think we’re now back to over 20 deaf and hard of hearing students.

Alvarez: 18:19 – 18:35

And so are there any other, like, accommodations? I know that the DPRC, like you said, you guys are really focused on the success of students and their educational success. And could you maybe go a little bit more in-depth about how you make that possible?

Santiago: 18:37 – 18:47

Sure. I mean, philosophically, it’s just about removing barriers to education. Right. And so I think it might be helpful for people to know a little bit about what that process is. Yeah.

18:48 – 19:09

So you come in and you fill out our registration, you meet with a specialist, a disability specialist. And really in that conversation is what barriers do you feel you’re facing? What is impeding your ability to learn? And then the specialist goes, “okay, well, I think these accommodations might work for you. What do you think?”

19:10 – 19:15

Yeah. And she goes, yeah. Where the student goes, “hey, here’s what I used to have. You know what? What can you do here that’s similar?”

19:15 – 19:23

Once that meeting’s done, we approve the accommodations and then you’re off and running. You never have to come back and meet with us again.

19:23 – 19:46

Your accommodations are set for the rest of your time here. Yeah. You are welcome to come back and meet with us, especially if something’s not working. You want to add something? The other piece of it is not every student uses every accommodation in every class, right? So every semester our students go into their profile on our portal and for each class, they pick which accommodations they want that generates the letter that goes to the professor.

19:46 – 20:12

Okay. So that’s the process. And I guess I think everybody kind of maybe understands service level, okay, the accommodations or what helps break down the barriers. What I find myself doing a lot of the time, that really is the part of breaking down the barriers, is helping instructors actually implement the accommodation. 

20:12 – 20:34

Because we get a lot of instructors who, you know, an accommodation may come up that they’ve never had to work with. And so there can be some, you know, some consternation, like, “how am I going to fit this into my classroom?” Right. And that’s where I find my background teaching. And also my doctorate is in pedagogy, so that’s the science of teaching.

20:33 – 20:57

Having that background, that instructional design background, curriculum design background, is really helpful when I meet with instructors to say, okay, “you tell me about your project and what is the goal of this?” You know, this class project or this class activity? How do we maintain that goal and that educational objective with the adaptation for the accommodation?

20:57 – 21:10

That’s probably one of my favorite parts of the job is working with instructors. I help them see how to implement the accommodation, and that’s where I really feel like to me that I’m breaking down barriers.

21:10 – 21:27

So we want all of our students to really just go out there and enjoy their time here. And if there’s anything where they feel like they’re having a frustrating time with an instructor, come to us right away, right. And we’ll be the ones to work that out with them. And you just go live your life.

21:27 – 21:41

And so what we really hope they’ll do is or that the instructor, if they feel like, well, I can’t do this instead of saying no to a student or I’m not going to do it or I’m going to do it this way, the instructors can come to us too, right? Right. We have open office hours for everybody.

Alvarez: 21:43 – 22:04

And I like that you guys have that open door policy where, you know, you can talk to the instructor, you can talk to the student. But yeah, I think that’s probably what makes, you know, SFSU’s such a great place for deaf and hard of hearing students to learn. Are there any other, I guess, little tidbits or just ways or reasons why SFSU is so good?

Santiago: 22:05 – 22:31

Yeah, I mean, so and I’ve said this when I was interviewing at different universities for jobs in disability services. You know, one of the things I always wanted to know is do you say no department or a say yes department. Right. And there’s some universities where their disability services approach is, “what does the law say we have to do? And where can we use the law to not have to do things?”

Santiago: 22:31 -22:56

We’re a say yes department. Which doesn’t mean we say yes to everything, but that generally we believe students, we believe their experience. And so when they need something, we are always looking for it. Okay, do we have some sort of evidence in the documentation where we get to say yes to this. Right. Because that’s what we would like to find a yes where we can.

22:56 – 23:09

It’s never too early. It’s never too late. Right. So, we do have students who come from high school and they choose not to register with us because they think, you know, I’m just going to give this a shot on my own, and that’s great, that’s fine.

23:08 – 23:21

But if you do find yourself struggling, you know, you can come to us the spring semester of your senior year and get accommodations like, no, it’s never too late. It’s also never too early.

23:21 – 23:29

We help students in part by helping each other and by making sure that our office culture is good and that we’re an open and inviting place for students to come to you.

Alvarez: 23:29 – 23:42

That’s really awesome. I’m glad to hear that you guys are even open throughout the year, that’s just an amazing opportunity for students and accommodations. And I just – it’s really needed. Definitely is.

23:42 – 23:53

Well, thank you so much, Dr. Santiago, for just being here and taking the time to talk about your experience. It’s just really interesting. Your life is a very interesting one, so.

Santiago: 23:53 – 24:01

Thanks. I think so, and it was on purpose, right? It was like I set out to have an interesting life and I feel like I succeeded.

Alvarez: 24:01 – 24:07

Yeah. You’ve lived many lives. I think. So, even if you didn’t – weren’t an actor, I think you still have a lot.

Santiago: 24:07 – 24:09

But yeah. Okay. Well, thank you so much.

Outro

Alvarez: 24:09 – 24:16 

Of course. Well, this has been Autumn Alvarez with GGX. Thank you so much for watching and listening.